« More Wisdom From Sandra Bishop | Main | Sandra Steps In »

February 21, 2009

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341d842e53ef0111688ce67a970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A Quick Q-and-A:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Marla Taviano

Loved this post.

And right after lunch, I think I'll make a run to Lifeway. Maybe my book Is That All He Thinks About? got a sticker! (I've had a couple people e-mail me that they thought it was pornographic.)

Seems like a sticky, yet slippery, slope to me.

Courtney

I actually laughed out loud at the phrase "Deeply Stupid." I'm still sort of chuckling over it.

Love your take, as always... and your transparency.

Anne Lang Bundy

While "Read with Discernment" seems a bit tacky if we're talking doctrinal differences, I think there's room for advisories on novels. There's plenty of Christian fiction for my young teens to read — but not mine, at least not until they're a little older. I'd welcome tasteful labels, even if discreetly placed on the copyright page, such as "M: sexual content, graphic violence."

(For some in CBA, it might be "card-playing, dancing, wine drinking ...")

JMK

I am glad that some people aren't putting stickers of versions of the Bible. Some simply wouldn't make it...ha ha

chip

No way, Anne. Every novel is a chance to grow. "Huckleberry Finn" could be stickered for "using inappropriate language." Having the Thought Police sticker novels based on some set of preferences they have is scary. The next step? "You shouldn't be reading this, so we'll take it away..."

kyle watson

Okay. Jot this down. The keys to success in the novel business. Outline. I need to write something that garners a doctrine sticker. Check. I need all black characters. Check. I need Sandra to read my book proposal. Check. This should make me "Deeply Stupid" enough to make it to the top. Wow! I'm on my way. Thanks Chip.

sally apokedak

Well if I owned a bookstore I wouldn't sell any emergent books (or most of the other Christian books out there, for that matter). But then people would complain about censoring. I say publish whatever you want, but the bookstores have every right not to sell it and they have every right to sell it with a warning sticker if they want.

I used to work in a bookstore and I had to quit because my conscience wouldn't allow me to sell some of the products we sold. When I sold occult books I felt like I was supplying heroin to children. I had customers who came in every week for the new horoscopes.

I might handle things differently now that I'm older and wiser. I might enter into conversation with the occult folks who came into a store where I clerked. But if I owned a store, I still couldn't stock occult material.

The folks at Lifeway are real people with convictions. Leave them alone. We need more people to stand up for their convictions.

Yes, they could just refuse to sell the books they think are damaging, but they also can make a statement. Some people won't like the statement and they'll quit shopping at Lifeway. Others of us will like the statement and we'll start supporting them.

I'll leave Amazon and pay the higher price to support Lifeway. I'm that happy about a store that puts a warning label on The Shack.

Carol L Daubenmire

I was telling my husband about the Lifeway stickers and his immediate response was, "I thought we were supposed to read all books with discernment."

bob

A WARNING STICKER HAS BEEN PLACED ON SALLY'S COMMENT. IT'S PARENTAL, BASED ON FAULTY REASONING, AND IS NOTHING MORE THAN HER CHANCE TO RANT ABOUT EMERGENT BOOKS. BEWARE.

(so... like it, Sally?)

sally apokedak

heh heh I have no problem with it at all, Bob. I am a firm supporter of the freedom of speech. I will fight with everything in me for the right of emergent types to express their beliefs. I will also fight for the right of others to warn others to look to scripture for truth.

So called squishy theology is sinful and shameful and ought not to be overlooked. I have not only a right, but a responsibility to speak up about this.

You, my dear fellow, are more than welcome to warn people against my opinions. You must answer to God, just as I must. When we get to heaven we will, no doubt, both thank God that he's forgiven our many errant beliefs.

Michael

There is a bit more to this “policy” than what Chip is pointing out. As a former bookseller, I was often faced with the dilemma about what books to carry/not to carry, based on our own doctrinal boundaries. In some instances, we decided not to carry certain titles/authors because there were some theological/doctrinal hills we were willing to die on.

In other instances there were books where we didn’t necessarily agree with the author, but what they were writing about was addressing the Evangelical reader and/or it was within the pale of Evangelical orthodoxy, “In essentials, unity; In non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”

As you can imagine, LifeWay Christian Stores, a chain owned by the Southern Baptist Convention, must have some strict content rules about what they will/won’t carry. Some of the authors they are “labeling” would be at complete odds with some of their theological positions as a denomination. If they took the same stance I did in my store, then they would simply not carry these titles The problem is that much of Evangelicalism is embracing these authors and because many of the churches within the Southern Baptist Convention don’t “toe the party line” LCS would be in for some serious problems if they banned these books all together.

So, the labels are probably more of a compromise to appease their more conservative S.B. constituency than it is an attempt to tell people who wouldn’t normally do so, to begin using discernment.

The labeling policy appears to be intended to keep one group from getting offended, but it ends up offending an equally, if not larger, group of people. I don’t know how they win on this one!

Michelle Van Loon

I'm going to put a sticker on my keyboard that says "Write With Discernment".

chip

1. Of course Lifeway is putting stickers on books that differ with Southern Baptist dogma, Michael. That's pretty obvious. The point in my post is that this is a terrible precedent. If they don't like the books, they don't have to sell the books. Or maybe they could do the braver thing, which is to carry good, thoughtful books that make people think, then expect people who are smart enough to be readers to also be discerning.

2. And Sally, you make a pretty big leap to suggest that because someone's theology differs from yours it is "sinful and shameful." I find emergent theology to be neither (even tho I don't agree with everything said by Brian McLaren). Our understanding of theology is historical, so it has grown and changed over time. Maybe you could allow someone else do differ in points of theology without immediately branding them as heretics.

sally apokedak

So sorry Chip.

Not for what I said but for the unclear and offensive way I said it. Please forgive me.

I didn't mean that anyone who differed from me was sinful and shameful. I meant only that errant theology is sinful and shameful. I err at points, I'm sure. And where I err in my thoughts about God, I sin.

The same is true of others. It's not OK to have squishy theology and it is OK to warn people about squishy theology in books, I think.

I honestly did not mean to brand emergent types as heretics. I said in my original comment that I wouldn't sell MOST Christian books in my store if I owned a store. That's not because I think Southern Baptists and Charismatics are heretics. It's simply because I wouldn't feel right selling things I didn't agree with.

So, I hope all your emergent readers will forgive me and know that I was not condemning them to hell. I do disagree strongly with their views but I firmly believe they have every right to express them and I was not meaning to attack them for exercising their rights. I fully and freely admit that I don't know everything and Jesus had to die for my sins. I trust his blood is strong enough to cover the sinful theology held by others as well.

Thanks, Chip, for letting me clear up my thoughts here. And sorry for hijacking the thread.

Scoti Springfield Domeij

I'm interrupting the Oscars to tell you that I LOVE your humor and commonsense. It's sad that ministries and some publishers are influenced by the most vocal and negative 'squelchers of God-given creativity and insight.' It prevents those of us who are willing to address issues honestly as 'risky' rather than relevant or real or biblical.

Sandra Bishop

Life would be so much easier, wouldn't it, if everything came with labels.

Black or white, for instance. Love or hate. Respond or ignore. Judge or show mercy. Cool or not -- wait, we live in the age of mega-branding. Nearly everything does come with labels, doesn't it?

Hey, yeah. We're told what to think by the media, the pulpit, our politicians, and even educators -- all before we have to make up our own God-given minds.

That makes it so much easier.

What about those pesky ideas, though? How are we going to label those? I know! We'll start with books ...

Sigh.

If only manuscripts came with stickers saying "Read" or "Reject" and I didn't have to go through all that effort and thinking and deciding for myself before coming to my own conclusions.

Life would be so much easier.

LEON

WARNING: CHIP MACGREGOR IS A DOOFUS.

Pam Halter

Characters becoming black? Where they another color before? Is this author writing fantasy or sci-fi, where skin changing colors is the norm? :)

Oh the desperation to get our stuff published! I hope I never become that scared. Writing is hard enough without lowering yourself to that level. It's all in God's timing, anyway.

On the book labeling thing ... I'm wondering if some people would appreciate the warning so they wouldn't have to return a book they bought not realizing the content? Not that I'm agreeing. I'm just wondering.

Michael

And who determines what are "good, thoughtful books that make people think"? The challenge is that they are a bookstore that many customers hold to a standard (whether or not it is a legitimate one) and they are doing something to keep those customers from walking. Maybe what they should do is just post a sign at the register that says "Hey, we don't agree with everything we sell and selling it does not imply an endorsement of it, we just want to make sure your faith is fully informed and intelligent."

John Robinson

And now that those books have been labelled thus they're going to start selling like billy hell (as if they weren't already). "The best-laid plans of mice and men aft gang agley" and all that...

Darcie

Please tell me the Lifeway stickering thing is a joke. Please! Yet another way of a tiny number of Christians making all of us look petty and neurotic.

No wonder I shop Amazon, B&N, Borders for my books. Hate doing that, but refuse to support legalism that drives folks AWAY from Jesus.

Darcie

Okay, I can't resist throwing this out there after reading the comments:

What ever happened to teaching people to think for themselves?

Discernment is something mature believers do for themselves. Something I believe the Bible says we need to develop in ourselves through intimate relationship with Christ.

Warning labels, condemnations etc seem to assume people are too dumb to be discerning. Too dumb to think for themselves.

A strong Christian should be so grounded in their faith that other ideas or view points shouldn't create a catastrophic confusion.

Reading something you don't fully agree with, in my opinion as a professional educator, can strengthen your convictions. It provides insights into the wonder of the human mind.

My college (Houghton in NY) was criticized by students b/c they taught a course on evolution. (Gasp!)

Petitions passed around every now and then to abolish such blasphemous material.

Learning the guts of the evolutionary theories cemented my faith and enabled me to have many, many conversations in the world of public education to dispute evolution.

Jesus didn't call us to be hiding under rocks. We are to be light of the world, not at war with ourselves.

Fighting over what should be preached to the choir only dimms the light and makes that rock all the more difficult to pry out of the mud.

I'll probably be flamed for my opinions here, but the world will know we are Christian by our LOVE, not our warning labels.

Part of education is knowing other view points.

Twill

It's interesting that the people who like to think of themselves as "tolerant" are complaining about so circumspect a warning label as "Read with Discernment." What does that say about this supposed tolerance?

The company gets to establish its brand, to stand for what it wants to stand for. A mild tag like "Read with Discernment" seems to me a totally appropriate way of flagging that the store does not take a position on the particulars of the theology of the book, or that the book holds content that is likely to offend some portions of the store's clientele. It's not even claiming that there's anything wrong with the book, just warning that it's not PG-rated strictly doctrinal stuff.

Would you prefer a store that has (a) mild labels (b) different sections for compliant and noncompliant works, or (c) eliminating all noncompliant works?

You don't get to choose (d) no labels and let the dumb clients learn to look stuff up before buying it, because then Lifeway would be Walmart or Barnes and Noble, and then what's the point? The store wouldn't stand for anything, wouldn't have a brand identity, and the clients wouldn't have any reason to prefer them over B&N. Fastest way to kill the chain.

Serve the clientele. Stickers are fine.

P.S. Twain's original Sawyer/Finn books ARE labeled due to inappropriate language. N- words all through, caricatures of blacks, and so on. (Also excessive spelling-out of dialect.) Standards have changed.

Sandra Bishop

Remember to look ABOVE the post, and not BELOW to identify the writer, folks.

I (Sandra) want to clarify that it was someone named Leon who warned us all that CHIP MACGREGOR IS A DOOFUS.

I would never have written such a thing -- I would have misspelled it "DUFUS" just for kicks.

I'm glad, though, that Leon has the right to express his opinion. In print, even.

Krista Phillips

I'm going to stay away from the whole lifeway/sticker debate (call me chicken, whatever! Actually, more due to lack of time *grin*)

What I liked is the person who wrote a book where the people in it 'become black'.

So, I'm sitting here imagining this book where a white dude looks down at his arm and thinks to himself, "Hmmm, I'm looking a little darker these days" and then a week later, his whole body has turned black and he's like, huh? And it becomes this scientific anomaly as to why this guy changed from white to black and of course it turns into some kind of conspiracy where the government wants to kill the dude because he was the result of an experiment gone back and he has to run away and find the true reason for his change in color.

I think I need to stick to my night job of writing contemporary romance and leave the thriller/crazy stuff to the professionals :-)

chip

WARNING: SANDRA BISHOP IS A DUFUS.

Mike

Sally, don't take that from Chip. Call him a doofus. Oh wait, somebody already did that.

I agree with Chip on the labels thing. It's embarrassing. It also assumes that we weren't going to read with discernment in the first place. "Oh, wait - there's that label. Better flip the discernment switch on this time . . ."

Enjoy your blog, especially when you're ticked off.

chip

I've heard from several people who made arguments in favor of stickers (sometimes in ALL CAPS THINKING). Some were really upset that I called this practice stupid, and made the case that I was preaching tolerance but wasn't tolerant of stickers (a silly argument at best). One even got upset that I "took a swipe at Jim Dobson," who has obviously reached a point of holiness where his name must not be invoked. (Yikes -- and you people are upset at the Catholics for having saints?)

A thought, to all you righteous sticker-lovers: Let's say you walk into Barnes & Noble tomorrow, and discover they've taken all your beloved right-wing commentators (Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et al) and put stickers on their books, warning you that the authors were bigots and therefore bad for your soul? Wouldn't you be offended? (Yes -- you'd be storming over to the counter to complain. I'm a Republican, so I know.) Or what if they decided to put all the bibles behind the counter, so that you had to make a special request for them, and the average shopper couldn't accidentally run into one and pollute his or her mind?

There's danger in this sort of thinking. If we were talking about stickering novels that had graphic sex or violence in them, you could make a "morality" case. But in this situation, they're basically selecting some theological writers as bad. And this from CBA bookstores, who have allowed any over-the-edge nutjob with a radio show to sell books on their shelves. They allow Benny Hinn to sell, for crying out loud. Every name-it-and-claim-it prosperity huckster. They've even allowed ME to stick my name on a book. But a thoughtful theologian who disagrees on some points of conservative theology? They're the one to be pointed out? Sorry. This is a bad idea.

Carol L Daubenmire

Darcie, I agree that reading things you don't agree with can strengthen your mind. Its good to have to ask yourself, "is this truth?" I think thats an ongoing exercise whether we are reading or just living.

I like to read edgy books because I want to know first hand what the author is saying. I hate it when I hear someone make a passing comment that a book is "controversial" when the person speaking has not even read the book nor can they really explain what in the book is at issue.

Chip is right by stating that our understanding of theology is historical. We think we are the most enlightened generation but so did the christians at the time before the reformation.

lisa

I hope all books are read with discernment. What book is written 100% perfectly by a perfect author who has direct, unencumbered communication with God?

As mature people we can read what Christians of many traditions have to say, consider and discuss what is helpful, and sift away the rest. The panic mentality - sticker shock- if you will, is not surprising at all. It gains strength from creating an insider mentality, and propagating fear and mistrust. It also smacks of a mild form of book burning-a smolder. Of course, the backfire will be terrible, and counter-productive. A back-draft of people trying to seem edgy, and post-conservative will crave what is a "sticker rating" now. And maybe the fiery zeal of the Spirit will even turn the tide in an inferno of outpoured love through the messages of more of these stickered books. Have I used enough fire metaphors? I'm trying-It's a 911, right? ha. :)

Oh, what to do with Christians! How quickly we forget all the fire and brimstone types of messages Jesus gave were really for the religious folks. Is it any wonder…

lisa

Writing goal for 2009:
Write/sell a book that gets a Lifeway Sticker. (bigger sales that way for sure, I'll bet.)

Marcia

What's so wrong with reading or learning about something you don't agree with.

Seriously.

I've done that my whole life in many different fields but I have yet to notice any negative consequences.

Reading or listening to ideas that confirm existing beliefs about any subject is intellectual laziness. If that was the norm, we would still all be hunters and gatherers living in caves somewhere.

I'm with Chip and Darcie on this one, hands down.

Bonnie Grove

I'll comment on the only important point:

Doofus is a funny word.

Bonnie, who thinks for herself without regard for any sticker anywhere, at any time.

Erin

I missed the day this was posted! Rats! I'm leaving a comment anyway. :) I am adamantly opposed to banning books (which is where sticker crazy thoughts seem to lead...) and I agree the sticker will just become a coveted thing. Three of the best non-fiction books I've read in the past few years were A Generous Orthodoxy (by McLauren), Searching for God Knows What (Miller) and a book called Real Sex (by Lauren Winner ... I'm sure it will earn a sticker :). Even with the theology aside, they're all such wonderful writers. I don't always see resonance like that in books about the Christian faith. LifeWay also refused to carry one of my favorite CD's a few years ago (a Derek Webb CD that is incredible!). It all seems so lame to me. I am far more offended by rows of "I love Jesus" ashtrays that litter Christian bookstores than I am by edgy books that make me think. I like edgy books. Please don't stop writing edgy books ye brazen writer types! :)

Deb Kinnard

The correct (Chicago) spelling is, in fact, doofus. Although there is a new word making the rounds here, due to our ex-governor and associates: Chumbolone. This is a Dumb Person Who Gets Caught.

IMO, Lifeway's method of dealing with these books is inappropriate. It also wants me to go into a Lifeway store (are they even in the Chicago market?) with some home-made stickers, and sticker ALL of them! Discernment is a tool for everything in life, plus all we read. Even the Word. Isn't Timothy admonished to "rightly divide the word of truth"?

My guess is that I'll want my books stickered, if/when they make it into these stores.

Marcus Brotherton

Dang it, Chip! What we NEED around here are some more book burnings!!!!

Lots of them!

And let me suggest my new book, "We Who Are Alive and Remain: untold stories from the Band of Brothers," as a perfect candidate for the top of the pile.

It's got lots of salty soldier talk in it, and there's one completely smudgy scene where a mortar falls into a Heineken Beer factory, forcing the good men of Easy Company to sample the contents inside.

How horrible.

How horrible indeed.

I mean, let's think of the children.

Here's what I propose: I invite anyone to gather a huge mob of like-minded people, some fiesty camera crews, a big pile of tinder, and torch my book!

That's right. Torch a few hundred copies preferably. Really eradicate it!

And then afterward talk about what you've done on the news.

Talk about it a lot. Be sure to mention the title and how horrible my book is so folks aren't tempted to pick up a copy for themselves to see if you're right.

Or ... if book burnings aren't your style, at very least, will someone PLEASE ban my new book!

That's right--put it smack dab on the top of some "Banned!" list somewhere, and then publicize the list to everyone you know.

Tell the whole country that my book is absolutely the worst!

You see, if there's one thing that's been shown by (literally) centuries of book burnings, book bannings, and book labelings, is that these actions succeed mostly in creating great buzz around a book.

And great buzz translates to "reach."

If you know what I mean.

See, for instance,

* Animal Farm
* Black Beauty
* Brave New World
* The Da Vinci Code
* Doctor Zhivago
* Fight Club
* The Grapes of Wrath
* Gulliver's Travels

... all of which have been banned (or preferably burned! once or twice in their history).

So, someone, please, please, please burn my book!

Remember, that's "We Who Are Alive and Remain: untold stories from the Band of Brothers," available May 5, 2009 from Simon & Schuster.

See the website at:
www.bandofbrothersbooks.com

Top of the pile with a little kerosene, please.


Randy Mortenson

This was all terrifically entertaining. Thanks everyone!

A. W. Tozer reportedly read Shakespeare on his knees asking God to help him understand and discern what he was reading. I read a chunk of Richard Dawkins's "The God Delusion" to see how an atheist thinks. I tell you, a book like that makes me appreciate anew the Bible and good, thirst-quenching stuff like C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity" and J.I. Packer and Spurgeon and John Stott and the rest.

And seriously, stickers? I bet 99% of book buyers don't notice stickers, seals, award embossings and the like. Unless they're sale stickers. If someone wants to buy a book, they're gonna buy the book.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

Subscribe via Email