Wisdom from a Fellow Agent

Steve Laube (pronounced "Lobby') is a longtime friend of mine. We first got acquainted years ago, when we were both working as editors and we spoke at some of the same conferences. I always found Steve to be wise and articulate (whereas I'm known more as "wise-guy" and "intemperate"). Once I became an agent, I used to pitch him projects at Bethany House, and our friendship continued. Then Steve succumbed to the dark side and became an agent in his own right, and the two of us started our own little chat group -- a couple of literary agents, dishing the dirt on projects and trying to one-up each other. He's still a friend, we still chat, and I still value what he has to say.

Some people will think I'm crazy, turning my bl0g over to a competitor -- but I always appreciate my conversations with Steve, so I thought the readers of this blog would enjoy hearing what an experienced friend has to say on the topics of the day.

Steve, it's great to have you join us. Let's start by talking about CBA -- what are the trends you're seeing in fiction?

"This is always a challenge. Three years ago I couldn't sell a bestselling historical author anywhere. Today everyone wants historicals. Who knows about tomorrow? Publishers and authors alike tend to 'chase the ball' in an effort to match the perceived interests in the market. Unfortunately everyone sort of gets the same idea at the same time. For example, there was a sudden flood of chick-lit after Kristin Billerbeck's first novel was such a success. But here we are, a few years later, and very few publishers are willing to even consider a new 'lit' project.

"We get the same problem with science-fiction and fantasy (which are two distinct genres, contrary to common verbiage). I championed that category when I was at Bethany House and we launched Karen Hancock, Randy Ingermanson, John Olson, and Kathy Tyers. Unfortunately the market was soft and the category sort of frittered away to where the 2007 Christy Awards didn't even have the category designated for an award. However at the same time we have observed the wild success of  CBA YA fantasy novels from both Donita K. Paul and Bryan Davis. That success has opened a small window of opportunity in this category for adults too. Only a couple publishers are looking, and I can state that they will probably only release one or two authors, and wait for the market to vote. If the numbers are not strong? The cycle will begin all over again.

"So my advice is to stop chasing the market. Don't suddenly decide that you must write an Amish novel just because they are popular today. Don't write a Da Vinci Code knock-off just because it was cool to write a story with a 'lost manuscript.' Writers have no idea how many similar proposals we see that simply echo the current bestseller list. At all costs avoid the cliche'd approach to storytelling, i.e., the need to toss in a tornado to create suspense, or an assault on a woman to engender sympathy, or a myriad of other themes and triggers that are overused. Take your writing to a level that causes agents and editors to gasp at its creativity and brilliance. This can't be done by brainstorming one afternoon. It's why many bestselling books take years to develop and write."

Amen! So my Amish chick-lit about a girl caught in a tornado while searching for some lost Amish recipes won't fly?

"And now you've got me preaching. let me move to another subject before a blow a gasket."

Deal. What are you seeing with writing and publishing in non-fiction?

"There is a similar problem of chasing the market. The difference is that publishers aren't as concerned with 'story' or 'craft' with non-fiction. Instead it is the author's platform or past sales performance that has become the new threshold.

"In the past an author could create a great idea, get published, and consequently be able to build a platform. This still happens (see Donald Miller and Blue Like Jazz), but it is not the norm. Instead the author must work hard, sometimes for years, to create visibility and a media-ready personae, and then create the great book. I have a client, Jill Rigby, who did this the right way. She spent years developing a ministry in her state for teaching manners to kids. She developed a public school curriculum and became an expert in her field. After ten years she thought it time to try and write a book for parents that would run parallel to her ministry. We worked together, found a publisher (Howard), and her book, Raising Respectful Children in a Disrespectful World came out last year and has enjoyed considerable success -- so much so that her publisher signed her to do two more books.

"Unfortunately the majority of people have neither the inclination nor the skill set to develop this type of market visibility. They have an experience to share or a topic they have taught or a modest-sized ministry, and think that publishers are going to want to publish because the book is too important to ignore.

"I know Chip has told the hard news in earlier postings, but let me reiterate some of that so he isn't the only voice you hear on this topic. I know of more than one publisher who won't even consider looking at a proposal unless the author's previous books have sold 50,000 copies or more -- or if this is a first-time author, the projections are at a minimum of 30,000 in its first year. Those are some huge numbers. I was rejected by one publisher who said, after reviewing a project whose author has a national TV show in over 100 major cities and a dozen foreign countries and over 3 million books in print over the last 20 years, "His last book only sold 25,000 copies -- he isn't big enough for us."

Ouch.

"How's that for a slap of cold water on a chilly morning?"

So what's a writer to do?

"Again, write the absolute best book you can, and then write it better. If you are starting out, ply your talent in the magazine world. Get used to creating snappy ideas that editors love. I have a client who spent 10 years developing a reputation as a top-drawer article writer. The author was eventually asked to write scripts for a radio program. Then she was asked to record scripts of her own for that program. Next thing you know we were able to leverage those scripts into a book contract. She didn't start out with the book; she started out by becoming a great writer and making contacts in the industry. Now her dream has come true for publishing a book.

"At the same time, work on becoming an expert in your field. Speaking, writing articles, blogging, etc. Give us a reason to pay attention to what you have to say. The market beast is cold-hearted, vicious, and unyielding in its demand for big ideas."

I know you've worked as a bookseller, editor, and agent. You've seen the industry grow and change. What do you think the future holds for Christian publishing?

"I've been in this industry for 26 years. I've watched it grow, and personally felt its growing pains. But I believe the industry is healthy, and becoming smarter. One can walk around the convention floor at the annual International Christian Retailing Show (ICRS) in July and either feel despair or feel inspired. I must admit that after 26 consecutive annual conventions, I still get a thrill when walking the sales floor. It is a picture of 'God on the Move.' Nowhere else can one see so much incredible talent in one place, and all with the same goal: to help change the world. I remember one New York general market editor who recently came to the show for the first time. She said, 'I had no idea that I would see such a high level of quality in design and production, and such great content.'

"There are some who see the glass as half empty. They say that Christian bookstores are in trouble and this means the demise of the industry. All I can say is that CBA is a reflection of the market at large. The ABA independent booksellers are struggling just as much as CBA independent booksellers. The chains in both markets are cutting a wider swath. Is this good or bad? Hard to say, but there are more books being sold than ever before, so with that measure it is a good thing.

"It is a privilege to be part of this marvelous industry, and to contribute to the writing and publishing of books that have such an extraordinary impact. I've been asked, 'What do you do for a living?' I answer, 'I read.' When they ask, 'What do you do for fun?' I answer, 'I read.' It can't get much better than that!"

You still go to conferences and get hounded by authors who want to show you their latest book ideas. What other advice would you have for authors wanting to move forward in their careers?

"The best advice I've heard is to view the conference as a learning experience, not a 'selling' experience. So often writers are crushed or disappointed because the conference did not meet expectations. The publishing world is one that will break your heart. Therefore the best thing to do is to learn as much as possible about it. Then you can navigate the labyrinth with a little more confidence. I have clients who first heard me at a conference as many as ten years ago. They spent intervening years studying and learning and writing. Now their material is ready for prime time.

"Use a conference as a way to meet with other writers and make them part of your extended network and support. Editors and agents are always on the hunt for the 'next best,' and someday yours may be the exact project we are looking for."

Great advice, Steve. Thanks for joining me on the blog and sharing your wisdom.

"My pleasure."

-chip

Comments

[Richard Mabry]

Chip and Steve--sounds like a new sitcom (and with the writers' strike, maybe there's a market there)--thanks to you both for the insider's view. I think, reading between the lines, the message is to do the absolute best job you can at writing and then wait for God's timing.

[Timothy Fish]

There’s a lot of good advice here. I think Richard’s advice is the best advice. Part of what is in the post raises more questions than answers. A writer can’t guess where the market is going and some writers will be unable to build a platform outside of writing, but every writer can do the best he can and leave the rest of up to God.

Considering the cost of publishing a book, it is understandable that publishers will want to put thresholds in place based on how well an author has sold in the past. It is also understandable that they will be more interested in authors who have a large following. There is, however, a difference between a person who is an expert in a field and a person who is recognized in his field. Some people are recognized because they are experts, but a person does not become an expert by being recognized. “Speaking, writing articles, blogging, etc.” does not make a person an expert, but a person who is an expert and is able to demonstrate that expertise through “Speaking, writing articles, blogging, etc.” will probably have a better chance of receiving the recognition that publishers are looking for.

[Ronie Kendig]

Awesome interview! Richard - You're right. It's all about God's timing, and His plan for you/your writing.

[C.J. Darlington]

Really enjoyed this post, Chip & Steve. I'm always interested in learning more about this industry.

[Pam Halter]

Thanks for the info, Steve. Now I have to swallow my fear of "I'll never get anywhere with my writing" and keep writing!

[Angie Farnworth]

Thanks for the fresh insight and great interview. I have heard so much about platforms, speaking engagements, etc. How does this translate for the average unpubbed novelist? In other words, is there the same need to make a name for yourself and create as much exposure before getting a fiction book published or does that mostly pertain to non-fiction?

[Rachelle G.]

Great stuff guys. I linked to it on my blog.

[sally apokedak]

>>>>Take your writing to a level that causes agents and editors to gasp at its creativity and brilliance. <<<<

Shoot! Why didn't I think of that?

heh heh

That advice is a little like my doctor telling me I need to lose weight.

"Ya think? I'm so glad you told me. Now that I know, I'll get right on that, Doc."

The problem is that while I often gasp at the brilliance and creativity I see in others, I'm pretty sure I'll never be brilliantly creative, my own self.

It's that "fresh" deal. It's so easy to recognize fresh once someone brilliant has done it.

But, all kidding aside, I really do think the advice to shoot for gasp-worthy brilliance is solid. We can and should shoot for it, even if we never achieve it.

I also find it refreshing to hear someone say he loves to go to ICRS and believes the industry is healthy. I really want to go to ICRS sometime. I know the Jesus junk is bothersome, but I still think the whole show would be invigorating.

Thanks for the interview, Steve and Chip. It's nice of you to take the time.

[Rob Sargeant]

Thanks Steve and Chip. This blog sure helps to put things in perspective. The advice to avoid the cliché good, though I do like the Amish Chick lit girl, caught in Tornado idea. I'd buy that book.

[Gina Conroy]

"Some people will think I'm crazy, turning my blog over to a competitor"

Chip, I'm sure that's not the only reason people will think you're crazy. ;) But thanks for letting Steve encroach on your territory.

Steve, great insight, and I'm hoping it won't be long before you have your own blog to share with us. Don't worry Chip, (not that I think you would), but I'll still read your blog.

[Tea With Tiffany]

I love that you added another voice to today's post.

It's hard to hear the truth, but I'd rather hear that anyday instead of fluff.

[Christina Berry]

So you're like the Emperor and Steve used to be sweet little Anakin but turned Darth Vader? Oh, the power of the dark side.

I'm going to call Wendy Lawton "Yoda" from now on.

[Jess]

I'm thrilled to see you two together here. Great post. Remember that "when E.F. Hutton speaks, people listen" ad? At least, I think that's who's speaking--or is that a shirt? Anyway that's the way it is for me. When MacGregor and Laube speak, I listen. Believe me, guys. If you two aren't speaking from the heart you've got a lot of people fooled.

[Timothy Fish]

I’m with Sally on the statement “Take your writing to a level that causes agents and editors to gasp at its creativity and brilliance.” That is a whole lot easier to say than it is to do. I don’t know of any author who can look at a manuscript and answer the question of whether agents and editors will see it as creative and brilliant. I do think that the most creative authors are those who have a slightly offbeat view of the world and remain true to that view rather than trying to be like the authors who are on the bestseller lists.

[Truth Box Girl]

Love Tim's comments. I feel the same regarding difficulty judging the worth of a project. But from now on, I will use Tim's thoughts as one of my filters as I read my own stuff. Am I laughing, crying, snoozing …etc.?

I enjoyed the Post for the same reasons stated above by others and continue to applaud Chip for bothering with imparting wisdom to the unenlightened. To be perfectly honest, (says the Truth Box girl), I sunk into a bit of a hole after reading the comments on non-fiction success rates. I get it but I don't like it.

To pull myself out of said hole I will continue to work at writing something brilliant while looking to God to direct the next steps. Forgive me if I sound cliché regarding God, but really, if He wants something to move forward He will do something freakish like the Donald Miller story or like my friend and co-worker who sold a book on a concept without prior book publishing credits. Reportedly her first run is 20,000, due out in March (Howard). She is a good writer and I enjoy discussing and learning about the trade with her but really don’t we have to offer up our works and wait to see where He takes it?

[Merrie Destefano]

Great interview, Chip and Steve!

Although the entire interview was awesome, the following quote inspired me most:

"So my advice is to stop chasing the market. Don't suddenly decide that you must write an Amish novel just because they are popular today."

Personally, I love diving into new territory and going "where no man has gone before." (Can you tell I love Star Trek?)

I know both of you have heard this before, but here it is again: You have both done so much to mentor writers, beginning and advanced, over the years and I just wanted to let you know how invaluable your insight has been.

Blessings always, and hello to my favorite High Supreme Galactic Overlord.
:)

[Brenda Nixon]

The Chip & Steve Show -- I like that. Thanks, Steve, for sharing your knowledge and recommendations. I smiled when I read about Jill Rigby who has been an acquaintance for years, and I'm thrilled with her hard-earned success.
You saved the best for last with, "Use a conference as a way to meet with other writers and make them part of your extended network and support..." Amen and amen! This is what I tell aspiring and new writers all the time.

[Steve Laube]

After reading some of the feedback I thought I should clarify something.

It is possible to hear the words of seasoned veterans like Chip or myself and think it is impossible to get published. I even read another blog that picked up some of the "statistics" I wrote and concluded that publishers were no longer interested in developing talent.

That is not the case. What I was trying to convey is that it isn't easy to get published. It takes work. It takes creativity. It takes perseverance. Obviously, there are some publishers that only want the sure bet....the bestselling author, but my comments weren't meant as a blanket statement for the whole industry.

And as for the challenge to write a gasp-worthy manuscript? I wasn't kidding. And I didn't intend for it to sound like a cliche. A common problem is sending a proposal to an agency before it is ready. Before it has been vetted by others and before the writer has really learned the ropes.

I have a client, a first time novelist, who got our attention over a year ago, so we signed this person up. We shopped that manuscript around the industry to no avail. So this writer hunkered down and wrote a completely new manuscript. They started over. And now it looks like we will have two publishers bidding against each other for that project. This writer did not take "no thank you" for an answer. I still think the first novel will sell some day, but for some reason this second project has captured the attention of some great publishers.

I've spent this week clearing our office of a couple hundred unsolicited proposals that have come to us in the last few weeks. There were only four that received high marks from our review process. Only one of them struck me the same way, so I've requested the rest of that manuscript.

In addition there are four full manuscripts requested by us. Of those, two didn't pass final review. The other two are still under consideration...I "might" take one of them....maybe.

Bottom line? It is a highly subjective business. What I like, Chip might not. And what Chip likes may make me yawn. So the encouragement is still to write that gasp-worthy proposal and get an agent who will champion your work without hesitation or reservation.

Steve
The Steve Laube Agency

[Robert Treskillard]

Thanks, both of you for your advice!

Particularly, when you say "A common problem is sending a proposal to an agency before it is ready. Before it has been vetted by others and before the writer has really learned the ropes", that is good for me to know as I work on finishing up my first novel during the next year.

[Mark Goodyear]

Steve says, "View the conference as a learning experience, not a 'selling' experience."

If only it were so easy to set aside our ambitions and live in the moment. No matter what part of my life I'm looking at, I sometimes fall into the trap of measuring success in some overly tangible way that reduces experiences to numbers.

Great interview!

[sally apokedak]

I must admit I've been guilty of sending stuff before it's ready. I cringe when I think about all the stupid proposals I've sent.

And yet, when I sent them they felt pretty good to me. That's the curse of being a writer, I think. One day your stuff feels like something that will wow the Newbery folks and then, after it's been rejected, it feels like something a kid might have scribbled during recess.

I don't know any writers who can judge their own stuff well.

So we listen to our mothers and keep sending stuff out before it's ready. =0)

And the poor agents and editors have no choice but to cut off unsolicited stuff.

But the bit about finding the agent or editor who loves your stuff and will champion it...that's huge. That's what we all need, I think. Someone who clicks with us and wants to (and is smart enough to) help us make it better.

But in the meantime, while we look for that agent who will love our stuff, it's awfully nice to have mothers to tell us, "I don't know what's wrong with these people to keep rejecting you. They ought to have their heads examined--the whole lot of them."

[Bonnie Calhoun]

Thanks Chip, for turning over your page to someone as knowledgeable as yourself. Fresh insight is always a good addition to the great info you dispense.

Thanks Steve for taking your time to come here and share. Does blogging on your own, happen to be in your future?

Not that I'd stop coming here, Chip...LOL...but variety is the spice of writing...and learning :-)

[Susan Kelly Skitt]

Thanks for a look behind the scenes.

However, I still believe God is full of surprises. (smile)